Roger Bannister and Evolution
Posted by Allison Mack | Filed under Musings
Ok… So, apparently this was an amazing post, because the responses I have been receiving are so bloody cool and inspiring!
I have no definitive answer to this question. Like most of the posts I, well… um… post. I am merely seeking to have a deeper understanding of myself. A deeper knowledge of my own experience so that I may live the most rich, responsible, ethical, compassionate, and exciting life possible.
So here goes the exploration for me.
My understanding of human construct is similar to the definition Matthew shared to world construct: “to build or assemble something by putting together separate parts in an ordered way.”
I think that we as human beings have no choice but to do this the minute we are born, as way of simply surviving in the world. Meaning that the moment we are born, we are these blank entities that see no difference between ourselves and the rest of the world. To refer back to my “balance” post and the doctor speaking on the difference between the right and left brain. We have no understanding of our abstract selves, our abstract I, therefore we see no difference between me and you and wall and chair and bear and dog. We simply see the world as an extension of ourselves.
However, this is not true, and through experiencing ourselves in the world, we recognize the separation and the differences between me and you, me and the chair, me and the dog, and we begin to build a sense of ourselves; a sense of who we are separate from the rest of the world. Now in this building of us, of ourselves, we are also building our understanding of “not us” of the rest of the world.
It is my hypothesis that this is the human construct. The understanding that we build of ourselves, the world, and the way the two work and relate.
Whoah! That was tough for me to explain and I hope it made sense… Whew!
So, how does this relate to beliefs?
Well, I feel like when I believe something I will not question it. It is simply the way the world works. It’s a part of my “construct” that I never question, I just believe it is so. Now, this can be as simple as “I should always walk on my feet,” or as abstract as “My god is better than yours.”
Point being… we all have different experiences that ground us in our constructs and influence us in our beliefs. So, how does this relate to limiting beliefs and the Olympics?
Well, I feel that sometimes we can limit ourselves with our beliefs and refuse to push our limitations with the belief that it is simply not possible to do more–be more than what already exists. I feel like the Olympics are an amazing example of how these beliefs can be challenged and ultimately changed.
Michael Phelps is an amazing example of this in his capacity to break his own world records on a consistent basis. The man who first broke the 4 minute mile, Roger Bannister, is another example of this. For years it was a global belief that this simply could not be done… Until it was. Now this is not even something that is questioned.
The 4 minute mile is now a standard for Olympic runners. Thanks to Roger Bannister, our capacity to push our limits as human beings was stretched and strengthened, we evolved! I feel this is an amazing and inspiring example of what we as human beings have the potential to achieve by simply letting go of the beliefs that strangle our core abilities to progress and ask the question “what if.”
I really enjoyed reading these responses and want to thank you all deeply for your thoughts and ideas! It is so amazing!
xo
Allison
PS… I wanted to highlight this comment because I think it’s really really cool and it brings to light a topic I would love to explore next.
What is justice? We can deal with truth separately… let’s do one at a time… baby steps 
1. Kirk D. aka “SPARTACUS” Says:
August 15th, 2008 at 4:48 amHey Alli-Mack,
Here is my 2 cents worth…
I believe human construct is simply our nature in action. We all have the remarkable ability to think, to act on our thoughts, to communicate and respond/relate to others. We can’t escape it, though some can try to deny it. We all seem to learn about life based on what we experience personally and what others have experienced. We can’t help but to influence each other and I believe it is our duty on this planet to do so. We all have opinions on what it is we should and shouldn’t do. This is the our personal commitment to our view of life, (free-will) and it is a beautiful thang…Lord Palmerston in the House of Commons on July 21, 1849 said, “Opinions are stronger than armies. Opinions, if they are founded in truth and justice, will in the end prevail against the bayonets of infantry, the fire of artillery and the charges of calvary….” (This asks the questions, What is truth? What is justice? Hopefully to be discussed at a later time.) Opinions are truly powerful, and I’m reminded of the Emperor with no closes. How do we know if we in a sense have on closes simply based on our opinions, regardless of how popular or unpopular are opinions may be? Great agents of change always seemed to walk to the beat of a different drummer, swimming up stream and cutting against the grain of society. I pray that I am at partially dressed or at least learning to get dressed. Scary at times, but this quote seems to reinforce Alli-Mack’s new commitment of 30 minutes a day of reflection in search of the answer to this question of “right/correct belief” . Dr. John Mackay, a former President of Princeton Seminary, said, “Commitment without reflection is fanaticism in action. But reflection with commitment is the paralysis of all action.”
This causes me to ask the questions, who am I really and why do I do what I do?
2. Kirk D. aka “SPARTACUS” Says:
August 15th, 2008 at 4:55 amSorry about that.
The last quote by Dr. John Mackay, a former President of Princeton Seminary, should have said, “Commitment without reflection is fanaticism in action. But reflection WITHOUT commitment is the paralysis of all action.”
Tags: balance, beliefs, brain, experience, human construct, limiting beliefs, Michael Phelps, Olympics, persistence, Roger Bannister
61 Responses to “Roger Bannister and Evolution”
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Emily Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:21 pmBeautiful insights, Ms. Mack, as always. I think you understand yourself better than you think you do. I don’t exactly see myself as philosophical, so I don’t really know what to contribute to this discussion. But about beliefs… one belief I have that I’ve really been trying to live out is the fact that all people are created equal, every last one of them. I was just curious how you, the amazing explorer and philosopher, felt about this. And one more thing… not meaning to be picky, but it’s Michael Phelps, not Mark. =)
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Robin Hebert Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:31 pmFunny you should mention Roger Bannister…I was just listening to Jerry Savelle talk about him. His message was about how faith and beliefs can overcome obstacles in life. So many people said it never could be done….the 4 minute mile. Yet Roger Bannister proved them wrong, and because he did, now athletes are following his footsteps. Same thing with the guy who broke the sound barrier….people believed that it never could be done, but he had the right stuff. Makes me think of the scripture: “with God all things are possible”…..
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Jackie Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:36 pmhey Allison!
Totally agree with you. When i figured out that you had your own website. I went nuts (haha) and immedietly got a account on here. Reading your blogs made questions pop into my head that had never been even thought about before. It made me think deeper than i have ever thought before about beliefs and free will and life and everything.
I agree with EMILY, every single human on the face of this earth is equal and should be treated with respect. I mean, this could be as simple as not making fun of that one kid who might act differently in your school or it could mean something much much bigger.
Thanx for giving such an insite into all of this!!!!!! l8rs! : ) -
Maria Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:04 pmI will be honest I had to read this post twice to completely take it in!
But another amazing post Allison, it’s another post that makes you think!
Well, I think that if everyone sets their mind to it,they can do it. Sometimes us ourselves plague ourselves with negative thoughts and think that we can’t do it. But I beleive every one can do things that are incredible and change history. Because God created us all in his image, perfect, and he never makes us think that we are inferior or that we can’t do something.
I think that partly it’s us and another part is our laziness. Let’s face it we all have a lazy side of us that doesn’t want to do anything and always that side pushes us down and drags us down.
I think like I said in my last response, We all have to believe in something and we all need someone to believe in us. I also want to add that, also the people around us help us be better sometimes. Sometimes all we need is a few words of encouragement. You’d be amazed at what a few simple words like “You can do it” can do to your self-esteem.
And it’s so funny you mention Michael Phelps since that has been the main topic in my family right now. Me and My family are addicted to the Olympics right now and we saw the Michale Phelps race. And they mentioned two things first, that Micheal Phelps didn’t think he would be able to be a swimmer because the size of his EARS!It made me realize the kind of negative things that can pop into our heads and make us think that we can’t do things! And now look what Michael accomplished!!
Secondly, that a five time gold medalist was quoted that he believed that Michael wasn’t going to be bale to win 5 medals less eight. And again look what Michael did!It made me thing also that there will always be some people who don’t beleive in us and will not want us to accomplish what we want. But it’s really our decision if we let the negative comments take over our lives or if we simply shake them off and go ahead in our lives and do incredible things.
This makes me think of an Eleanor Roosevelt quote that I read really recently that has pretty much become the theme of my life right now:
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
In the end it is us,ourselves, who decided if we can do it or not. God created us, he gave us talents, but it’s our decision to use them to our fullest or not.
XoXo
Maria
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Robin Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:28 pmHi Allison and All,
In it’s broadest sense justice is form of fairness.
Whenever we experience a perception of inbalance whether being slighted, a dishonesty or something unethical,MOST humans feel the need to re-address this inbalance and seemingly correct it, a sense of putting things RIGHT.
Having served on a jury and served as a police officer (if only for 3 years), justice in terms of law is very difficult to achieve , a huge responsibility to bear, but that should not stop us aiming for it, after all laws were created by man, and although not perfect, are man’s attempt at living within a society where justice prevails.
How we justify our own actions - all of them-from mundane to dramatic- often depends on the effects of our actions to ourselves and the people immeadiately around us…
Keep having fun all
Robin
England
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Kathy Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:48 pmI need to take this post in again in order to grasp what is being said, but I need to nit pick for just a second.
It’s Michael Phelps who has won the most medals at any Olympics, not Mark Phelps.
I’ll be back with a more thoughtful repsonse–when my brain actually works :):)
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The Friday Philosopher Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:53 pmI think I may have been a little eager to comment the last time you mentioned the Human Construct Allison, I don’t think that I gave it the contemplation that it deserves. Now that I look back on what I wrote, I would say that I may have concentrated more on the actual words than their meaning.
Human Construct – Created by the Human mind. What I should have asked myself was why? If I take the religious argument; some mentioned during the last post that we want, rather than choose, to believe that there is something in the universe greater than ourselves; a Devine Being!
What I should have asked myself was; why do we do this? Why do I do it?
Perhaps the answer lies in the experiences of Roger Bannister; nobody believed that he could break the four minute mile, despite the previous record being set at only 4 minutes, 1.4 seconds! Not even the crowd that had gathered to watch the event believed it to be possible, until Bannister had almost achieved it! Perhaps as a species we are pre-programmed to underestimate ourselves, perhaps because we examine a problem and discover that we ourselves are unable to solve it, we automatically assume that nobody holds the necessary skills. What ever the reason, every day countless individuals continue to prove themselves wrong. Why only the other day, European scientists announced that they may have found a cure for the common cold; the most adaptive virus known to man may be a thing of the past within the next ten years. I couldn’t count the amount of friends and colleagues that have told me this is impossible!
Maybe the belief in something greater than ourselves is only part of the Human Construct; perhaps the part that most don’t understand or know the answer to, is the belief in oneself. Maybe this is why we have “Free Will”, whether God given or not!
Maybe the choices aren’t limited to; “Believe in God or believe in yourself.”
Maybe we have “free Will so we can believe in both!
Friday
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Tabitha Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 4:37 pmhey,
I thought of sharing my thoughts about these theories. It doesn’t really matter what theories we believe in, evolution, or even naturalism or creationism.
All these theories are construct of how we as humans make sense of the world. The are ideas, just ideas that were made into a reality through culture. Everything that we say, every word is an idea which we as a society normalise (the notion of “it goes without saying” by Foucault)
Also when we saperate us to this and that…etc we are actually creating the “we -dom and they-dom” which is one way to make sense of the world but however this idea makes the “they-dom” part as a deviant in the society and thus we create what we call discrimination.
We then look at the term discrimination as something that we consider bad, the “opposite” of what we do. Like history tells us how we fight for the human rights of the black slaves back in those days. Yes, they are free from slavery now but they are still discriminated. They are still discriminated or separated as the “other”.
Even the division of states and countries are considered as discrimination. I mean, why do we go like “I’m an American, Australian, German….” Why can we be citizens of the world instead of a citizen of a particular country?
On the free will perspective, we will never be free willed (literary) because we have been governed by our very own culture. What we are today is shaped by culture and ideas. The notion of negotiation is the trick behind the idea of a free will.
Ps: Sorry if I have repeated anythingthat was stated above…too much booze in the night and early mornings murders me
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Tabitha Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 4:41 pm…wait, maybe I am actually writing nothing that relates to above…well whatever it is, if it’s something that don’t make sense, please give me the benefit of “i’m not in my right mind today”.
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Melissa Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 5:18 pmWell I must admit I’m a little lost,just a little because my English isn’t so so good.So here I go,I understand that human construct is what we humans build in our life,what we create in the place we live,what we made by being humans,those creations can be values or models of lifes,we have control in our actions by doing what we think is the right thing because that’s how we being raise,and that can’t change us,all the contrary,we have to change this built by breaking rules like discrimination between cultures,racism,etc,etc.We can’t judge nobody just because they are from another place or country or just because they have a high quality of life.We have to be gratefuls that we can make a change,make a difference……Stay out of the rules just to make the right thing is AWESOME!!!!
Greetings to everybody.
Bye,Melissa. -
I'm Rachel Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 5:25 pmI do love these depthy blogs a lot,but I also love a light hearted blog every once and a while. You know just a nice one to chat about maybe not to serious. I still do love the deapth of every one of the blogs.
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David Hayes Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 6:19 pmConsidering “grade inflation,” the more modern approach to breaking world records might be to redefine the minute. With the box office records being broken on “Dark Knight,” I wonder how well modern movies would stack up if movie tickets cost as much today as they did in the 70s or the 40s. What does all that mean? Probably nothing. My particular construct has had a particularly bad sinus headache that kept me in bed most of the day and I’m just coming out of it in time to get to bed for tomorrow. Part of how bad it got was, despite how I felt this morning, I went to church to hear my Father’s (possibly) last sermon — having retired now for the third time at age 83.5. His fist sermon at his first church at age 17 was in 1943. He got fired twice from churches: Once for attending a march against above ground nuclear testing and once for attending a rally in Washington DC in protest of the war in Vietnam. He was a civil rights advocate when that wasn’t very popular and helped set up mental health help centers where ever he was assigned to minister. On days like today that I can’t help but measure my own life and I certainly wouldn’t be setting any world records … even with a longer minute.
Justice. I loved some of the throw away comments in the movie “The Golden Child.” In the movie, if the child’s protector fails and the child dies, the quality that the child represented will be forever lost to the world. Eddy Murphy asks if any protector has ever failed to save the life of his Golden Child. The answer was, “Yes, the Golden Child of justice died several centuries ago.” [Quoting from memory ... so look it up if you want an exact quote.] To translate, the comment meant that there is no justice in the world.
But … in the scheme of everything, does the equation balance? Is there an ultimate justice? That brings up the topic of Karma. In thinking about Karma, I was wondering if even Karma could be a true equalizer. If someone slaps someone else and is in turn slapped … do those slaps mean the same to the individuals receiving them? I finally hit on a concept that works. I have shared it with a few people over the last few years and I will share it with you all now. Hopefully, no one will make a religion out of it. It’s just a concept.
Let’s say that God, who is capable of anything, only made one soul. All lives and times could play out instantaneously for a supreme being. So let’s say that each and every one of the billions and billions of lives were lived by a single soul. It wove its way from one lifetime to another on its journey of experience. Every kindness done by one person to another was an act of kindness to them self. Every trauma inflicted on another was inflicted to them self. Only if that was true, would I believe that absolute justice would exist. People would truly reap what they sow and the golden rule would be a very literal piece of advice.
Chew on that one for a while.
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skahahoo Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 6:53 pmTabitha! I was thinking the exact same thing! Be honest…were you a sociology major? lol.
It’s a bit ironic isn’t it? That we need to separate “self” from “other” in order to survive and get on in this world, yet when that “self” feels threatened, it is this very same separation that could lead to the destruction of “self,” since it lies at the root of much human-created suffering, whether it be racism, genocide, religious strife, etc.As for justice…I think it is this idea that balance should be restored in an unbiased manner when some type of moral injury has been committed. I agree with Robin that in practice, justice is hard to execute. For one thing, it is not so easy to tease apart the forces that were responsible for tipping the scales in the first place. Where do you draw the line? At the individual who committed the crime? At the environment that shaped the individual? What about the circumstances under which the crime was committed? For another thing, how do you restore the balance? Through punishment? Through rehabilitation? What is the benefit of having the perpetrator suffer? Is it merely to appease the victim? And what about free will? Is everyone equally capable of turning away from wrongdoing?
Personally, I think we are better served as a whole when we try to carry out justice with more compassion and with less ego. When one person harms another, that is certainly not to be taken lightly, and the victim deserves to be cared for. But so too does the one who caused harm, because if he/she is a human being, then he/she is a social being, and thus does not act in isolation. There are reasons for that kind of behavior, and if balance is to be truly restored, then those forces must be addressed.
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BaronMango Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 6:56 pmBump for the Forums!
http://forum.allisonmack.com/index.php/board,6.0.html -
skahahoo Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 7:13 pmlol…And at the risk of having everyone bite my head off…I actually don’t believe everyone is created equally. If that were true, then (assuming comparable circumstances except my physical being) I should be able to swim as fast as Michael Phelps and solve mathematical proofs as well as Issac Newton. I do, however, believe that we are equally worthy and deserve to be treated as such.
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arash Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 7:27 pmNice to have you back, allison and david hayes, anybody has seen amanda recently?
I have been waiting for “Justice” for a long time, I mean as a topic.
Justice systems, are usually there to keep societies in order. Law, a set of rules for every body to follow.
Now back to my story telling; Years ago I worked in a book store in downtown toronto, I caught a guy once stealing our books, he was a homeless drug addict trying to find something to sell for his next fix. It was a chain bookstore and we caught the same guy three times in three of our locations and each time we called police. Each time they asked him a few questions asked him to return the books and let him go. Now if the same guy did the same thing under Taliban in Afghanistan first time they would chop off his fingers, second time his hands and if he still would manage to go for the third time he would lose his arms.Another example, a guy somewhere in africa stole some money from church ( the amount was equal 50cents $US) he was jailed for 5 years. Another guy used to hide in bushes in York University, toronto, attack female students and rape them, he got arrested after the fifth victim, he was jailed for 1.5 years.
Justice Systems, how do we decide what is just? Are there ever two crimes exactly identical ? Do we even have a universal defenition for each moral value?
Can we oppose religeous, caltural or ethical laws and rules ?
What if you are a part of the justice system, how will you trust your own judgement ?
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arash Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 7:37 pmBTW, david, I loved your one soul theory. I guess we have to try to get there and if one day we feel that way then the justice is served.
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SteveK Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 7:44 pm“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Maria,
It is an interesting quote. An insult doesn’t work unless you believe it is true.
So by our reaction to an insult we can learn about ourselves.
SteveK -
arash Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 7:56 pm… and David, now you are scaring me, if your one soul theory is correct, I never want to meet someone who wants to commit suicide !!
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Tiq Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 8:01 pmI’m not altogether sure how I feel about this, but I figure I’ll take a stab at eloquence and thoughtfulness.
I believe that differences in perception are the biggest catalysts for differing opinions/views on issues like social justice and the human potential. To invoke a cliche, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. Personally I prefer more morbid analogies.
Say you (Allison) get hit by a car. Your initial reaction may be something along the lines of “Damn, this is quite unfortunate” combined with thoughts of “ouch” and “I hate bleeding in public”. Now take that same experience and repeat it with another person. Common sense tells us that, generally, the reaction will be similar to that of Allison’s, but, of course, not exactly the same. Then there are those of us who may have what some perceive to be a warped view of the whole fiasco. Instead of “Damn, this is rather unfortunate”, someone may think “Maybe now people will pay attention to me”, or “Excellent, I can forego the experience of jumping off a building or shooting myself.”
My point is that while people may generally have similar thoughts about certain experiences, we are such a mentally diverse species that we cannot or will not fathom anything outside of the status quo. We value familiarity so much that we tend to forget that in order to truly understand requires a willingness to view things from alternative perspectives.
Excuse the rambling and eccentricities, I hope that you might find sense in that. -
Haley Keith Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 8:04 pmHi Allison! Great post as usual!
So, i’m not exactly what you may call a very deep thinker but i do, in fact, think. I like to say that i’m an “on the top of the water” thinker. So i “thought” about the topic of belief some more and decided that belief is merely what you honestly believe in, it’s what keeps you going when you don’t think there’s anthing else out there, it’s what makes us so different from the person we’re so close to on the subway! Belief’s also limit you to what you do with your life; they can, if used the wrong way, make us closed minded and judgemental. So, in sight of all that “on top of the water thinking,” i’ve decided to challenge myself. Challenge myself to talk to and/or help someone whom my own and other people’s belief’s lead them to think are a “Skank, Goth, Prep, Prom Queen, Redneck, Whore, Loser, Geek, or Jock. I’ll get back with you on how it goes!
xoxo,
Haley -
Kyle Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 8:29 pmThe human construct to me is basically split into two parts. The half we are born with and the half we learn.
The first half is what most people have. A body, brain, two eyes, a mouth (the whole ten fingers ten toes kinda thing). I know people are born with infirmities but go with me here. We are all born with the basic blueprint.
Now, the second part is what we learn. Because of our learning experiences and environment, a person builds a personality, conscience (sense of right and wrong), mental capacity, etc completely unique to that person.
Together these two things make up who we are and certainly affects what we say, so and act.
I love your posts, keep them coming.
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Brittany Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 8:36 pmHey Allison, I was seriously blown away by the depth of your explanation of human construct. Wow, it was amazing and it makes perfect sense to me. It seems like you know more then you think you do! You’re such a great thinker! I wish I could elaborate on more what I mean. It’s hard to translate my thoughts and feelings into words. Justice hmm, when I think of justice I think of Clark Kent helping or saving others. Maybe that’s just it. Justice is just doing the right thing or what seems to be the right thing. Dictionnary says: “Quality of conforming to standards of what is fair, upright, and moral.” I think everyone has their own meaning of justice. Because everyone has their opinion on what is right or wrong. So why not have an opinion on what is just or not? This is a tough question…… I guess it all depends on what we think, and the way we react to what happens in our environnement, with the rules or limits guiding us to what is just or what isn’t. If that made any sense, really hard for me to explain. Just to put it in a few words….To me justice is our opinions and limits to what is just or not? Alrighty, it’s getting late. Goodnight to all of the deep thinkers out there! Thanks again Allison for sharing with us, much love and support, Brittany
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taylor nikole Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 8:56 pmhellz yes.. looking forward to discussion on that
maybe.
I remember saying I wanted to have a discussion on it sooo yay for that?
id really give my opinion on the whole blog… but im limited to online phone access and small phone keyboard *sigh*
couldn’t even read the replies…. so im a little upset! can’t wait to get back home and read them all taylor nikole
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Gaia Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 10:18 pmA fastest hello before I go…. When I’ll be back I’ll read everything
Take care -
skahahoo Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 10:25 pmDavid Hayes and arash got me thinking…
Once, when I was walking through a neighborhood that some might deem as sketchy, some random guy on a bike zipped by and snatched my cell phone from my hand. As he was racing away, if I had seen him hit a curb and fall over flat on his face, I admit…I would have felt triumphant, with a self-satisfied grin plastered on my face. But…if you told me that he was stealing in order to help his family pay for bills because no one was hiring, or that he came from a broken home and he had to steal in order gain entry to a gang…you would see that self-satisfied grin disappear pretty quickly.
One of the difficulties I have with concepts like karma is that it seems to view suffering as a zero-sum game and wrongdoers as isolated individuals, when in fact life is rarely that simple. Oftentimes, the people who cause suffering are suffering themselves. This doesn’t mean their actions are excusable, but it does make me wonder. Say that guy got caught and was sentenced or fined or whatever. Great…so things are balanced from my perspective – he gave me stress and in return he received stress. What about things from his perspective? In all likelihood, he started off with a negative balance sheet, whether it’s a broken home, a dangerous neighborhood, an underperforming school, etc. When does his balance get restored?
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arash Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 11:24 pmskahahoo,
talking about that, just today I had my bike stolen. Tell me something when the guy hit the curb, did he damage the bike? You never know it is a small world! -
Puffy Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 1:02 am(sorry if this double posts… )
It is not a Justice System. It is just a system. ~Bob Enyart
One of irony’s greatest accomplishments is that one cannot punish the wrongdoing of another without committing a wrongdoing himself. ~Anonymous
Two quotes today - one to say that Justice alone is a difficult subject, let alone delving into the so-called justice system. Because to address a justice system, you must subsequently address the ethics of the society in belong to, as other people have mentioned.
For me, my instinctual response is that justice is an infliction of suffering upon a person who has chosen to cause suffering upon another living being. This might be karma, the legal system or social repacussion. Then, however, I question: despite being an atheist, is my opinion based on judeo-christian moral that largely influence my white western society? Do I believe justice is suffering based on the addage “An eye for an eye”? Or is justice a social/human construct derived from a need to preserve our species? Did we create a belief structure to curtail our biological urges that would otherwise lead us to cause harm upon ourselves and threaten our survival?
Being an atheist, I’d like to believe that the concept of justice derives from a biological impulse of “don’t cause pain to other because pain might then happen to me.” I’m heading towards the realm of conditioning, but here is an example… one reason puppies shouldn’t be removed from the litter early is because it prevents developmental learning. Puppies that bite littermates get bitten back and that often leads to them stopping the behaviour. Because it’s an animal we ascribe it to biology, but if man 2 hits man 1 because man 1 hit him first, is that also biology or is it justice?
The argument could be that man has a more evolved brain than a puppy and that pain caused by conscious choice is a different circumstance. But then justice becomes determined by initial motive, as arash and skahahoo and others have brought up.
I think I’ve started to ramble and ask more questions than answer… so I’ll finish with this opinion:
We would not need the concept of justice is we could follow the ideal of Bill and Ted and simply always “Be excellent to each other.”
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Man Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 1:07 amJustice is revenge, sure it can be tempered with honor and graciousness but still it’s payback.
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SmallvilleRulz Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 1:32 amok i just watched ask allison mack….and u seem like such a cool person…just thought id say that…anyways….yeh
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SmallvilleRulz Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 1:37 amwhich makes me like chloe even more and i like chloe alot….best character eva..which u make her….tom welling makes clark awesome cause hes so hot
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David Hayes Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 3:24 amIt seems like everyone is focusing on Justice as a response to a negative act. So let me just mention the aspect of justice where someone works hard and gets the promotion or wins the medal or gets honored in some special way. That too is Justice.
Also, there is a type of “universal justice.” If I find myself overly critical of someone else’s behavior for something and I pay close attention, I will find that somehow I will inevitably be drawn to do the very thing I criticized. It’s like the universe telling me, “Hey Buddy! You’re not so perfect. Better be a little more tolerant!” Looking around, I see hose lessons being taught to people all the time, … but usually it seems that people don’t notice the lesson when it happens to them. Like a puppy in the pack that Puffy talked about not understanding why it got bit when it bit the others.
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Puffy Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 3:57 amHey David H,
I agree with what you wrote about the focus on justice being associated with a negative act. Justice related to fairness is such a huge philosophical issue… I think that the focus on the retribution side comes from our common usage of the word primarily in relation to the “justice system”. Perhaps it’s just my slack use of the English language, but my instinctual thought is “justice relates to negative actions, reward relates to positive actions.” Which is something I might have to think about more… we have the institutional justice to punish people, but far less resources to reward with. Is it just that negative puishment works better than positive reinforcement?
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Gail Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 4:43 amI love reading these discussions (sometimes a bit too deep for me) but all I have to say is what makes the world so exciting for me is: New records are broken every day. It is human nature to push beyond the limits and strive to do better. That’s why we compete against and work together.
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SteveK Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 5:28 amJustice - is the concept of moral rightness in action or attitude; it is closely linked to fairness. (WIKI)
I think a lot of people are concerned about the application of justice, unfortunately justice is imperfect it always has been. Why is there a hell, why reincarnation as a lower life form, to make up for a lack of justice? Presumably cosmic or divine or karmic justice can/will balance the scales.
One issue I see is the lack of perfect knowledge or expert knowledge of the situation being judged, impossible for a judge or jury to have. Biases also present a problem.
I see another issue with restitution, for many crimes it is impossible to make restitution, without it justice is not possible. ie It is impossible to un-murder or un-rape someone, justice in these cases is really just punishment and a deterrent.
SteveK -
David Hayes Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 5:43 amThanks Puffy and others along the way. I hope that people who read these posts understand that often my purpose here is to broaden the scope of the discussion. If I find that everyone is thinking on only one side of the subject, I will raise the other aspects. It’s not to attack people’s point of view but help them expand it … or be better prepared to defend their own point of view. Hopefully this is in line with what Allison would like to see happen here.
Back to the negative side … or the positive aspect of the negative side? Punishment for the sake of the person being punished. Think of the case of a child who likes to run free in parking lots – crossing the paths of cars without looking around. A swift, gentle swat on the rear may not be politically correct, but if it catches the child’s full attention and prevents a tragedy, then it is Justice-fied. People who grow up learning that there are never any consequences to their actions don’t really grow up into the person they could have been. Eventually life will slam into them somehow and they will feel totally unprepared and cheated. And, in a very real sense, they were cheated.
Punishment for the sake of protection of society. If someone’s problem is that they get a kick out of hurting people, it is a Christian ideal that these people should be helped to see what is wrong with their actions … but in the meantime, there needs to be some kind of shield between the people intent on hurting others and their potential victims. People minding their own business should have the right to be safe from an unjustified attack against them. If prison life is a worse punishment than the crime deserved, what options do we have? As there is an increase in the number of people who think ‘wrong’ is defined as anything they can’t get away with, there is left a smaller number of people capable of generating enough income to build and staff prisons to separate the offenders from the innocent. Eventually, it seems, we will have to wall in the innocent and expel the people that won’t play by the rules.
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Jennifer Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 6:53 amHey Allison,I just want to say that your blogs blow me away.I’ve been to some other celebrity blogs and they are not nearly as interesting,inspiring or as deep as yours. I look forward to your next blog on Justice. =)
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David Hayes Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 7:04 amMaybe we should form a group devoted to making justice on Earth a reality … a Justice … League. Yeah! That’s the ticket!
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Nefra Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 8:14 amYou always seem to talk about amazing people who have inspired the world such as Ghandi. Simple as it may seem, did you even come to terms that you are also one of the people who is famous and inspires most us out here? You have opened a gate way for us to communicate with you and showed us that you are a wonderful and yet an amazing person who has this bright, creative and honest opinions about life which most of us share deeply about. Have you ever thought about how much you have touched or changed in a way? …..perhaps another question to ponder on….
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The Friday Philosopher Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 8:23 amSounds like a plan David!
However, a “Justice … League,” just screams spndex to me.
I’ll join, but I don’t do spandex.
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David Hayes Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 9:28 amHow far can spandex span?
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David Hayes Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 9:38 amI saw part of a television program last night on the subject of brain health. What I heard was interesting. The doctor was talking about a couple that had gone through a couple years of marriage counseling and the counselor had finally suggested a divorce. They came to him and he did brain scans. He found that the wife had a healthy brain but the husband showed damage due to drug abuse. When confronted, the man swore that he didn’t drink, smoke or do drugs of any kind. His wife verified that her husband didn’t do drugs .. that he was just a jerk. The doctor asked the woman why she would marry a jerk. She answered that he had been a wonderful husband up until 5 years ago. So the doctor asked what the man did for a living. He worked in a furniture factory putting the finishes on wooden furniture. The doctor told him that the brain scan was correct, that he was a drug abuser. The fumes he inhaled daily were the same as the practice of sniffing glue. He had the man find a new job before the therapy on his marriage could resume. Without having a healthy brain, the marital counseling would be useless. The program seemed to tie into some of the topics being discussed here.
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Matthew Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 11:40 amThat was amazing, it was like you took everything i was thinking ( ok most of it) and put it into words. This has actually been a good topic..considering the olympics are on.
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David Hayes Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 11:56 amI guess that’s why the 4 principal books of the New Testament are Matthew, Mack, Luke and John.
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Vegas911 Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 1:42 pmI was sent an email today about a two legged dog named Faith, and at the end of the email I read the most profound sentence and I thought that I would share it with everyone…….Life is the continual demonstration of the Strength of Life! Thats what I believe!!!
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Brenna Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 1:47 pmHey Allison,
I recently had the opportunity to take the Myers- Briggs test on personalities. It is a brilliant way to learn about other personalities and get along with others. A task which too often gets ignored by the general population. I was wondering if you have taken the test, if so I was wondering what personality you are? I am an ENFP. -
Amanda Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 1:56 pmOK, so WOW I just finished reading all the posts. Ya’ll have covered everything from breaking the 4 min mile, the most decorated Olympian of all time, deep thoughts on the human construct, sharing one soul, justice and spandex. Have I left anything out?
I’ve really been trying to think about how to best answer this post. To be honest, until this website I never thought about human construct. I understand it to mean man’s way of explaining or reconciling the world around them. As a way to explain intangibles like love or faith. Does it exist or is it human construct? Am I close?
I think it’s human nature to challenge beliefs. Some, like Roger Bannister and Michael Phelps, take challenges on personally. To say, yes this can be done and I just proved it. Somewhere along the line someone else will come along and break the records set at this and previous Olympics. What causes them to take on that challenge? The belief that they can succeed. Does it come from within or are they taught?
Then there’s justice. Some call it Karma, Christians quote scripture that says you reap what you sow. There’s justice when someone breaks free from an addiction or oppression to achieve great things. There’s justice when punishment is given for laws broken. I see justice as wrongs made right.
There are deeply held beliefs that shape how we interpret wrong from right. Can they be challenged? Absolutely. Beliefs that most closely held are those who have passed the challenged.
Ok, I feel like I’ve written one of Taylor Nikole’s “chapters”. Didn’t realize I went so long.
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David Hayes Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 3:25 pmVegas911 Said:
August 18th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
“I was sent an email today about a two legged dog named Faith, and at the end of the email I read the most profound sentence and I thought that I would share it with everyone…….Life is the continual demonstration of the Strength of Life! Thats what I believe!!!”I have a picture of a two legged dog. I don’t know what his name is, but everytime I look at the picture I think of lean beef.
I knew a man that had a dog with no legs. He named the dog “Cigarette” because he took the dog out for a drag every night after dinner. I don’t think that was so cruel because most people don’t name dogs with no legs … because they don’t come when you call them anyway.
Where are my rim shots?
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David Hayes Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 3:29 pmUh-oh! That’s why there were no rim shots — a two legged COW makes me think of lean beef. To bad posts aren’t editable! I must have been thinking about going to a Chinese restaurant when I typed that!
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Kathy-Lynn Brown Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 3:38 pmTotally off the subject but I was at work today counting pills for angry customers who don’t get why it takes more than five minutes to fill ten prescriptions and I got to thinking… What happened to my life? It seemed like just yesterday I was a kid dreaming of being a writer and working in Hollywood with people like Luke Perry and Molly Ringwald, and now I’m thirty-one years old and I haven’t done a thing that I dreamed of. I mean I still write in my spare time, and I have a box full of screenplays that I’ve written but never tried to publish. My husband keeps telling me to go for it. And I want to so bad. But I let one day after another pass me bye. I keep putting it off saying maybe tomorrow, but when tomorrow gets here I get caught up in what I’m doing that day that I don’t get to what I want to do.
It’s sad how we let life slip bye us. I’m not complaining, because I have a great life. I have a husband that is loyal and understanding and loving and caring. He is my superman and I’m his Lois. I have parents that taught me right from wrong and that the world is not black and white. People are people and they all deserve to be loved. And I work in a place that allows me to help other people and I love it. But we aren’t promised tomorrow so why do we let things that we want to do in life pass us by? I’m thirty-one and have never seen the ocean. I’m thirty-one and never had a child. These are things that I wanted to do by the time I was twenty-five and now they seem so far away.
Don’t get me wrong I’ll keep the faith and I know someday I’ll see my name up in lights with the number one box office movie in America, I just need to slow down and enjoy the day that I was given.
Thanks for letting me share my crazy thoughts with you.
Kathy-Lynn Brown. -
paul Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 4:39 pm“If you want peace, work for justice.”
To me, that explains it perfectly.
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arash Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 5:32 pmCathy lynn,
If we were not angry we wouldn’t need those pills to bigin with.Puffy,
It is not “Just a System” the correct term is “Just assisst ‘em” an analogy once I heard from someone trying to justify punishment. He said we are not trying to harm criminals. The way I see it is that when someone makes someone else’s life unsafe then he believes in an unsafe world so we assisst him to have the kind of world he wishes, an unsafe place to live. -
Michelle19 Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 6:09 pmHi Allison, I have been reading your blogs but this is the first time I’ve had the urge to leave a comment even though it’s totally unrelated to your blog post. First though, I want to ask you a question. Are you a Christian? The reason I ask is that I see the things that you write about in your blogs and the theme of each is almost always the same. You write about the meaning of life, human beings, compassion for mankind, freewill etc.
You always seem as though you’re searching (I could be wrong) for some kind of answer to life or to the meaning of human existence but I just want to tell you what I think. Jesus Christ is the only way to obtain true, boundless, fulfilling joy. That’s why people who don’t know Jesus as their Lord and Saviour are so unhappy, I mean people look for fulfillment in all the wrong places like in acquiring wealth, acquiring possessions, supporting charities, thrill seeking and even in people. But the entire world has nothing to offer compared to the fulfillment, completeness there is in Jesus. And I don’t mean that as a Christian you just walk around skippin’, laughin’ and singin’ and you’re always jolly because there’s always some days that you feel miserable and unhappy but with God that feeling doesn’t last because there’s hope and assurance in Jesus Christ. The One who came into the world to die for our sins. The meaning of life isn’t to serve ourselves or other but it’s to serve Jesus and only in Him will you ever experience true happiness. That’s the problem with us (human beings) we’re just so self-centered, all we thing about is ourselves and that’s human nature. That’s why it’s hard for people to believe in Jesus and surrender their lives to him because they want to be in control of their own lives and the ultimate and inevitable outcome of that is sadness, despair, emptiness and a hugh void. A void that only Jesus Christ can fill. I know that this may seem like the ramblings of a religious wack but I’m not only talking about religion it’s more than that. There are a lot of religious people who go to church every Sunday, who talk about Jesus, who say the love Jesus, who say they believe in Jesus but the lives that they live don’t reflect that, I’m talking about my firm believe that Jesus Christ loves us and cares for us and He wants us to live by His word and live according to His will. And I’m not saying that Christians are perfect (after all we’re only human) we make mistakes and we sin but the important thing is that when we falter we ask God’s forgiveness. To summarize everything that I’m trying to say, the reason we were created is to serve God, to proclaim His goodness and to live our lives according to His will. That may be seem hard to do because as I said before we as human beings don’t like to give up control of our lives but it’s the best thing you can do for yourself.Oh, by the way I really like your character on smallville.
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Kirk D. aka "SPARTACUS" Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 9:58 pmHey Alli-Mack,
Hope you don’t mind me calling you that?
I like to give my friends nick-names and since I don’t know you personally, I figured I’d shorten your name. (Hope its cool with ya?)Anyways…Wow I am honored that you choose my comments. I’m new to this blogging thang and I think that its a great vehicle to connect with others and an awesome mode of expressing our thoughts and sharing them with others.
As far as justice is concerned I believe in a right & a wrong, a reward & a consequence system that is in play throughout the universe. A giving of account for our actions, but I don’t think justice can be called justice without some sort of anchor of absolute truth to hold it in place. I think justice would be impossible if we all did what was right in our own eyes. Doesn’t there need to be some kind of common ground upon which we all stand and come to terms with, in order to say something is right or wrong and this is the punishment for that wrong or this is the reward for that right?
Author OS Guinness, in his book “Time For Truth”, said, “Without truth we are all vunerable to manipulation…If truth is dead, right and wrong are neither, and all that remains is the will to power, then the conclusion is simple: Might makes right. Logic is only a power conspiracy. Victory goes to the strong and the weak go to the wall…When everything is reduced to the will-to-power, manipulation is the name of the game and victory goes to the strong and the ruthless. “Law!” Cornelius Vanderbilt once snorted. “What do I care about the law? H’aint I got power?”"
I believe justice loses it’s bearings and gives way to the power of the storms that can rage within the hearts of men without the anchor of some sort of absolute truth.
I hope that makes sense and I know I’m opening up a whole-nother can of worms, but what can you do. Those are my honest thoughts and they are always open to rethinking. -
Bouroux Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 11:13 pmHi Allison.
It’s an amazing blog.
I like the link that you do between beliefs and the Olympics.
I love the idea of pushing the limits but not at any price. The human body has limits that we must accept. Someone who mortgages his life to beat a record by taking drugs when destroying his body should not be considered as a model.
What impresses me, are innovations in sports that I compare to the art and creation. The diving in the swimming are becoming more complex, gymnastics routines are changing.
For the Olympics, the belief that the end justifies the means is widespread.“Well, I feel like when I believe something I will not question it. It is simply the way the world works. It’s a part of my “construct” that I never question, I just believe it is so.”
When you say ” I will not question it” , I don’t understand. For me, openness is to test my beliefs. It’s ironic, your next blog is unquestioned beliefs.
Have a good day.
bye
Claude. -
Phil Damico Says:
August 19th, 2008 at 11:37 amFaith is how far you are willing to take your belief’s. Whether its God, the World, career, your lover, family, etc. I believe in evolution but that it was started by creation. Dont have to see God to know that he is there. You cant see air, but you can Breathe! Fun topic, great bloggers, you rock Allison. looking forward to future blogs.
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Ron St.Amant Says:
August 19th, 2008 at 1:38 pmWhat is justice?
Justice is righting a wrong in a way that attempts not to create another wrong, while simulatneously being practical, pragmatic, and reasoned.
Failing to reach these goals leaves the action taken as revenge, vigilantism, or some other wild act.
As we are limited beings, we can never achieve real justice, since every action in itself colors or alters every reaction.
The sublime is a blind justice, but perhaps if God exists it is only to Him that such a justice can be found.
We can do our best. We can make a compact to live under the rule of law, and accept the imperfect system, while always striving to make it a more perfect one.
There will always be situations that seem unjust: that some are rich while others are poor, that some are healthy while others are sick, that some are protected while others in jeopardy. This is in part a product of our imperfect nature.
I guess I’m a contexualist in the sense that I believe intent, in many ways, is our salvation. If we strive for justice, we are in a sense free of the fickle whim of fate- the things we cannot control.
There will always be those who don’t care, and simply ignore injustice- the selfish without conscience. There will always be those who seek justice in a doctrinaire sense- the activist without perspective. Both operate in a vacuum. Both in a sense are relativist.
Perhaps then this is my longwinded way of saying that justice is often an abstact concept that unfortunately must be exercised in a concrete world.
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Kirk D. aka "SPARTACUS" Says:
August 19th, 2008 at 3:40 pmI have often thought, are the rules of justice & the lines of truth up to us to make or to discover?
Example:
If I look back at the past and see how people of different ethnic backgrounds, gender, and class have been “mistreated” by another, there is something within that tells me, that is wrong and it needs to be made right. What should I say? Should I say this is ok, or that this is wrong because this how I was raised?
If human life is precious, why is it precious? Why is it valuable? If it’s only because I say so, what happens if my opinion changes? Does human life cease to be of value? Or is the preciousness of human life an eternal moral that can’t be changed regardless of what I think?
When I am confronted with my own mortality and someone threatens it for no other reason than, they feel like it or because they can, the lines of truth and justice seem to be so much more clear to. I think instinctively, my life is of value, whether someone else likes it or not. I then move in such a way as to perserve my life. If it is true that my life is precious, then should all human life be just as precious. Should it be my responsibility to treat others the same and have the same value for their life as I do my own. This seems to come naturally. Reality seems to check my personal beliefs, like the ground when gravity takes hold of a falling object. Many things look good on paper and sound good in my mind, but not until I take my thinking and apply it to myself and others does reality come in like a big eraser helping me to correct my thoughts and theories.Just thinking out loud… or is it in type.
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*A.Mfan4eva* Says:
August 19th, 2008 at 10:09 pmAs a psychology and sociology student, I am deeply fascinated by both the concepts of human construct and human nature and would like to thank you so much for once again offering a fresh and original perspective on a highly interesting topic (how on earth you manage to come up with so many wonderful ideas, I don’t know - you truly are amazing!).
I must say I agree with your ‘definition’ of the human construct. I think it’s great that you pointed out the fact that our beliefs and experiences shape this construct: I truly believe it’s marvellous that no two constructs are the exact same, no two beliefs, no two experiences are the same. We live in a world of such diversity, with countless possibilities, and yes, we’ll always sell ourselves somewhat short because I don’t think it possible that we’ll ever see all the possibilites and opportunities that are out there. As for limiting our beliefs: well, I’m slowly learning to push the boundaries, with some HUGE thanks to your blogs. I think that thinking outside the box can sometimes be a scary thing, especially when one considers the countless ways a single belief can be viewed (take, for example, the way one might view religion or philosophy). I believe that, for may, limiting their beliefs simply comes down to a number of factors, such as lack of exposure to the outside world, even a lack of sense of self and community (hehe, I rather enjoy being able to stew this over… now I have something to write about in my journal). Back on track, though. Without giving to much about myself away, my construct of myself and the world I live in have changed countless times throughout my life, but no more drastically than when I was diagnosed fibrosis dysplasia, and my world was kind of thrown into chaos for sometime. I reworked my view of myself and the world, desperately trying to work out why it was me and not someone else with this diagnosis - selfish, I know, but I just felt so alone and scared. I forced myself to see outside the box, to question my beliefs, and I think, all in all, it was a pretty positive experience for me. Anyway, thanks for offering another interesting insight - from now on, I might try questioning my beliefs, rather than accepting them as concrete - never hurts to challege your beliefs, does it?
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Janae Says:
August 19th, 2008 at 10:29 pmI realise this is completely and utterly off topic, but honestly, my mind is completely overwhelmed by your latest blog and the complete complexity of thoughts that arise compliments of your blog. Anyway, I was hoping you might be able to write a blog (or should I say type a blog?!) on how our perceptions of our human construct changes with major life events. For example, how’d your human construct change when you were awarded the role of Chloe Sullivan? I mean, you were 18 at the time (jeez, time sure does fly; takes me back to sitting down to watch the first ever episode of Smallville when I was all of 10, and you’ll never guess who I instantly fell in love with). I know that my construct changed with numerous life events and I was just curious how these life events affected your construct, if you don’t mind sharing.
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Brad Says:
August 21st, 2008 at 11:14 amYou should definitely read Daniel Stern’s The Interpersonal World of the Infant. Deals with a lot of the same themes about childhood development that you talk about here.
